Reparations

[I am a huge CUNT]

maizeandblue15 said:

I think we all have the shit twisted. See, we all are Africans. It took us 25,000 years to become white. So all this time we have been seperating ourselves from.... ourselves

Say what?

I believe reparations should be paid in a message to those people (and the rest of the world), that America is a land of equal opportunity, liberty, and all that SHOULD make us truly Patriotic. Not just a flag, taking off your hat, and hating muslims; but understanding the value of equality and that actions of the past are repaid in history. And our generation is already going to pay out the ass for all the blood we have on our hands, so why not make out a check to increase our position.....

I understand equal opportunity. The people we would be making the checks out to have equal opportunity already! THEY WERE BORN HERE! They had nothing to do with slavery. Why should we hand over money to them because someone they haven't even met went through it.

Like everyone else, I'm not supporting slavery. I just don't think we should be handing out money just because of something that happened over 100 years ago.

[Keeper]

We owe the African-American an apology for slavery. Thank you Usma for the bit about New Jersey, I hadn't heard of that, just remembered Virginia going through with it around this time last year.

I don't think reparations will every happen. But realistically, they are owed something like 100 trillion dollars in pay from the labor they were forced to do. That's a lot of money that they haven't seen a dollar of.

There is no credence to the argument that slavery doesn't effect black people today. There is a reason black people face drastically higher numbers when it comes to % below poverty line, etc. There is a reason men like Bryant Wilkerson have had their lives robbed from them. There has been nothing more damaging to people in America than slavery (other than perhaps the genocide of the Native Americans), and something, however merely symbolic in nature it may be, needs to be done.

[cooljayhu]

msuspartan2 said:

maizeandblue15 said:

I think we all have the shit twisted. See, we all are Africans. It took us 25,000 years to become white. So all this time we have been seperating ourselves from.... ourselves

Say what?

It's part of one evolution theory that all human life started in africa. Read about it in English class last semester in a book called A Short History of Progress

[detroitbasketball]

With the budget situation as it is right now, money is probably not the way to go at the moment ....I could be wrong about that. But I'd say we should probably do something.....exactly what, I don't know.

[JacktheRipper]

detroitbasketball said:

With the budget situation as it is right now, money is probably not the way to go at the moment ....I could be wrong about that. But I'd say we should probably do something.....exactly what, I don't know.

Yeah, our budget isn't built to give away anything right now. Which is another reason this tax refund we are giving out to stimulate the econony is a horrible idea.

[Maize]

Oh its never going to happen. And I'm not calling anyone a racist, but you have to see that slavery has had an effect on the state of affairs for African-Americans today.

Inner-cities are greatly effected, and no one is able to repair them. We forget about things like education and quality housings and investments. Instead, we sit by while Detroit's drop-out rate increases, and test scores on the state's Work Keys (basic scholastic concepts) falls well below the state's median. Just one example for education.....

'You are a product of your environment!'

Even if they are born here, look what they are born in to. We aren't talking tax rebate checks here, what you are talking about is a symbol of what this country is supposed to stand for. And when I'm talking equality, I want for a young black girl in Chicago to know she will grow up with the same opportunities as a white boy from.... Kennebunkport?!?

[I am a huge CUNT]

maizeandblue15 said:

And when I'm talking equality, I want for a young black girl in Chicago to know she will grow up with the same opportunities as a white boy from.... Kennebunkport?!?

What reason is there that she can't? Who says we have to give reparations for her to have this opportunity? Look what they are born into? THEY ARE BORN INTO THE FREE COUNTRY YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT MAIZE! How is that not equal opportunity? Everyone here has equal opportunity. It depends on how bad you want it.

White people are poor too. What does poverty have to do with slavery?

[Buzz Killington]

It's a known fact that more black people are poor than white people. Blacks and hispanics both have high poverty levels, when white people live in relative wealth. And it's kinda hard for a black person to get by when he's born into poverty, compared to a white person who has been given every opportunity to succeed due to his upbringing. If you think that black men in "the ghetto" are born on the same equal plane as your average rich New England white boy who does his vacationing on the Cape, lives in a massive house, and can afford to go to Exeter Academy or some other prestigious prep school, you need to get out more.

[JacktheRipper]

msuspartan2 said:

maizeandblue15 said:

And when I'm talking equality, I want for a young black girl in Chicago to know she will grow up with the same opportunities as a white boy from.... Kennebunkport?!?

What reason is there that she can't? Who says we have to give reparations for her to have this opportunity? Look what they are born into? THEY ARE BORN INTO THE FREE COUNTRY YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT MAIZE! How is that not equal opportunity? Everyone here has equal opportunity. It depends on how bad you want it.

White people are poor too. What does poverty have to do with slavery?

You're wrong about that first part. That black girl from Chicago isn't starting from the same point a rich white kid would. Wanting it bad enough sometimes isn't enough. You have to know people to get ahead. Also, the white kid's parents are going to be more educated and make more money, which generally leads to the kid having more oppertunities to go to better schools and what not. Not to mention the fact that race still matters on a job interview. I don't care what they say, people have bias. That bias may make them decided a white person with a little less qualifications would be better than a black woman. I wish this wasn't the case and we could be sure the best applicant got the job. That's just not the way the world works.

I just want to add that I am against reparations. I wouldn't mind the US government apologizing for slavery, but there is no need to pay out money to people who didn't suffer under it. It's illogical.

[Freak93]

American is a free country, but by no means equal. In large part that goes back to racism. Whites of that time tried to show superiority which has been carried on over time. Usma has made a good point.

There was a test conducted by a university (I don't exactly remember which one, I have to ask my history professor about it.) to determine the race factor in job hirings. The university took equal resumés for the same job, but put different names on them. These names were common white names, along with common black names. The tests shown that the employer more often hired the applicant with the common white name as opposed to the black name.

It is things like this I personally feel can be attributed to slavery. They are not being held back because they are directly linked to an ancestor who was enslaved. They are being held back because they belong to a group of people who were at one time enslaved.

Now giving money to individuals won't fix the problem. You can never track all those down who actually had relatives enslaved, and more than their direct ancestors were affected. That is why if you are going to do something with the money, you need to do something to help benefit the race as a whole.

jct32 said:

Now, if they would have stayed on the plantation they would have some respect from their master as long as they worked.

This statement just seems so off to me. Their masters didn't respect them. Well, for the most part, as there may have been a few that weren't as bad as others. Anyway, most slave masters just viewed them as property. If they did their work, they were doing what they were suppose to. That didn't save the slaves from the harsh conditions. They were still beat, raped, sold, etc. If they did the work or not, they were still viewed as property.

[I am a huge CUNT]

Black people may have a disadvantage, but they have equal opportunity.

Big difference.

Just because more black people are poor instead of white people, what does that have to do with slavery? Maybe someone in their family screwed up big time.

[Freak93]

msuspartan2 said:

Black people may have a disadvantage, but they have equal opportunity.

Big difference.

Just because more black people are poor instead of white people, what does that have to do with slavery? Maybe someone in their family screwed up big time.

If you are at a disadvantage when it comes to the same opportunity, it is not an equal opportunity.

Maybe someone in their family was screwed because they are black. It could have been in a good job. A white and a black may have both applied, but the white may have been hired out of racism.

[JacktheRipper]

msuspartan2 said:

Black people may have a disadvantage, but they have equal opportunity.

Big difference.

Just because more black people are poor instead of white people, what does that have to do with slavery? Maybe someone in their family screwed up big time.

You're kidding yourself if you think they have equal opportunity.

On your last point, have you taken US history? In the south after the civil war, the freed blacks had so many Jim Crow laws thrown up against them that they couldn't leave. Most were put into the sharecropping system, where they were lent land to farm but had to pay the land owner part of their harvest. In many cases, the land owner would rent tools out to them with steep interest rates and costs. If a black owed anything, they could not leave that land until it was payed off. The only way to pay if off was to farm, so many got stuck in that sharecropping system for a very long time. Hell this shit still goes on over in the Delta region of Mississippi.

The point here is, that the end of slavery didn't end black oppression in America. Hell the idea of "equal opportunity" hasn't been around for that long. As recently as the late 60s, there were still segregation laws and many steps put into place to hold minority populations back.

[I am a huge CUNT]

Everybody, has the same opportunities. Anyone who wants to be an astronaut can be an astronaut. That is equal opportunity.

Some people may have certain problems like a learning disability that may affect their chances, but they have the same opportunities when they are born.

[JacktheRipper]

msuspartan2 said:

Everybody, has the same opportunities. Anyone who wants to be an astronaut can be an astronaut. That is equal opportunity.

Some people may have certain problems like a learning disability that may affect their chances, but they have the same opportunities when they are born.

Again, not true. You're missing the point that some people start out in life with a leg up. If your parents are more educated and have more money, than you have great opportunities in life. It's that simple. It doesn't just come down to how bad you want something. A rich white kid who wants to be an astronaut does not have to work as hard to reach his goals as a poor black kid would. You're lying to yourself if you do not think this is the case.

[Freak93]

Everybody has the same opportunities...











...idealistically.

[I am a huge CUNT]

bamarulz2020 said:

A rich white kid who wants to be an astronaut does not have to work as hard to reach his goals as a poor black kid would.

EXACTLY! They have the same opportunity. One just has to work harder than the other to achieve the goal.

[JacktheRipper]

msuspartan2 said:

bamarulz2020 said:

A rich white kid who wants to be an astronaut does not have to work as hard to reach his goals as a poor black kid would.

EXACTLY! They have the same opportunity. One just has to work harder than the other to achieve the goal.

And you think that is equal?!!

[Buzz Killington]

Dynasty Central: Never Letting the Facts Get in the Way of a Good Argument.

[Freak93]

Same opportunity and equal opportunity aren't the same things.

Jessica Alba's fiance and I both have the opportunity to do the no-pants dance with her. However, he has a much better chance at it being her fiance.. Thus making the opportunity unequal.