Universal Health Care

[detroitbasketball]

David makes Rush Limbaugh look like Al Franken.

[USN]

cooljayhu said:

Yeah if you don't know, universal health care basically means free health care for every citizen (except for special treatments). So if you saw off your fingers a hospital will reattach them for free not charge you tens of thounsands for each finger. I love the health care system in Canada and while I admit it has it's flaws it is in my opinion a far superior system.

yeah which is why the best doctors in the world are in AMERICA...not to mention the fact that a socialist form of government isn't the best way to go.....I guess it's ok if you want to give your money to government....and besides when you have essentially free health care, how can you set health standards?...overcrowdedness is another issue..I've heard multiple stories from europe and canada about the wait and deaths that could have been avoided and people being put into hallways

[dkgojackets]

paperbaghaircuts said:

im pretty sure in the sense of the 4,000 deaths of US soliders due to the war George Bush is one hardcore serial killer.

4000 deaths in a war is nothing. Thats what, 2 or 3 people a day?

Look at the casualties from real wars like Nam, Korea, WWI/II, etc.

[dkgojackets]

papelbon58 said:

cooljayhu said:

Yeah if you don't know, universal health care basically means free health care for every citizen (except for special treatments). So if you saw off your fingers a hospital will reattach them for free not charge you tens of thounsands for each finger. I love the health care system in Canada and while I admit it has it's flaws it is in my opinion a far superior system.

yeah which is why the best doctors in the world are in AMERICA...not to mention the fact that a socialist form of government isn't the best way to go.....I guess it's ok if you want to give your money to government....and besides when you have essentially free health care, how can you set health standards?...overcrowdedness is another issue..I've heard multiple stories from europe and canada about the wait and deaths that could have been avoided and people being put into hallways

you get what you pay for

fwiw, Im ACism all the way.

[PrimadonnaPictures]

david said:

paperbaghaircuts said:

im pretty sure in the sense of the 4,000 deaths of US soliders due to the war George Bush is one hardcore serial killer.

4000 deaths in a war is nothing. Thats what, 2 or 3 people a day?

Look at the casualties from real wars like Nam, Korea, WWI/II, etc.

2 out of 4 wars we didn't have to be into. Just like this one. and the korean war wasn't even that bad.. not as bad this one is.

So youre saying if a guy goes around and kills 2-3 ppl a day in america thats ok?

[dkgojackets]

paperbaghaircuts said:

2 out of 4 wars we didn't have to be into. Just like this one. and the korean war wasn't even that bad.. not as bad this one is.

2.5 million people died in the korean war. That's a lot more than this one.

So youre saying if a guy goes around and kills 2-3 ppl a day in america thats ok?

lol, this is a ridiculous analogy and you know it.

[JacktheRipper]

Not against it per say, would just need to see and agree with the way of going about it. Which I doubt will ever happen.

[I am a huge CUNT]

jacktheripper said:

And you're ignorant or blind if you don't realize that test scores are steadily on the decline and we are becoming dumber and dumber.

And that's because we are in a war? Good one.

No, the reason we have low test scores is because we have dumbass people living in our country. People who would rather buy their kid the next Air Jordans than any books or Hooked on Phonics.

We have teens getting pregnant that drink and smoke while they are pregnant. We have kids going out and getting blazed on the weekends, which isn't exactly good for your brain.

We also have piss poor academic standards. D- to pass? Yeah that really motivates kids to do really well. It doesn't help either that we sit and throw welfare out like it's candy either. If they wanna be a bum, they can be, you know why? Because they know the government will just come to the damn rescue and put a frickin check in their hands.

Just because Iraq was not our original destination, does it mean we shouldn't be there? How many of you are in charge of the Army? Oh that's right, NONE! You maybe think that the government knows just a little bit more than we do? It also doesn't mean there aren't people still in the country that don't hate us. Last I checked, the Taliban was still in tact. Osama bin Laden was still alive. That's all I need to keep fighting. You think they're just going to quit because they've lost one guy? ARE YOU KIDDING? They filter them in and out.

They're getting them from the US too! But yet, all our country can do is complain about wire tapping. What's the damn problem if you've got nothing to hide? The government is not going to announce to the nation you're gay or that you have phone sex. They are trying to protect YOU! and all you can sit there and do is bring "privacy" into it.

Instead of supporting our troops, we spend more time calling our president a Nazi, making fun of his smile or laugh, and making up stupid f****** 9/11 conspiracy claims. Support your damn country. We have it good here, and quit complaining about George W. Bush. The man has our best interest. He is trying to protect us. He also tried to invest in to education, but ya know what? People shot it down before even giving it a chance.

And all the stupid f****** democrats can talk about how they didn't want the war, well, doesn't a approval from Congress have to be passed first? Which means, some democrats had to have voted to invade Iraq.


This country makes me sick now. I'm not for universal health care. Some people need it, and sorry if I can't help you one day. But I'm not going to let lazy people come in and just get what they want without having to do anything.

[I am a huge CUNT]

Complaining about the casualties in this war is also f****** stupid.

Are we even at 10,000 yet? While all of our other wars had millions? So what if we had to be in them or not? Aren't you arguing the fact that we shouldn't have been in this one?

Why isn't anyone getting on FDR? But yeah, let's go make fun of GWB's smile again.

[cooljayhu]

yes but at least in the world wars and korea (not including Vietnam that was just a retarded war) the soldiers died for a purpose. They died defending their homes from tyranny, oppression, and murder. In Iraq and Afghanistan today young men are dying needlessly everyday for what? Democracy? Freedom? Those people don't even understand those words. It won't matter if the US stays in Iraq (or Canada stays in Afghanistan) for 100 years more, as soon as we leave they are gonna go straight back to killing each other. You know why? Cause that is all they know, and that is all they're gonna do. Sure we overthrew Hussein and the Taliban but you know what? Somebody else is just gonna take their place as soon as we leave and the oppression of these people will continue, making our soldiers deaths in vain.

[I am a huge CUNT]

cooljayhu said:

Sure we overthrew the Taliban but you know what?

Last I checked Bin Laden was still alive and they were still going.

[detroitbasketball]

msuspartan2 said:

cooljayhu said:

Sure we overthrew the Taliban but you know what?

Last I checked Bin Laden was still alive and they were still going.

But no longer in power. The Taliban was overthrown.

[I am a huge CUNT]

detroitbasketball said:

But no longer in power. The Taliban was overthrown.

But the fact that they are still killing US soldiers like crazy makes them have no more power?

[detroitbasketball]

msuspartan2 said:

detroitbasketball said:

But no longer in power. The Taliban was overthrown.

But the fact that they are still killing US soldiers like crazy makes them have no more power?

Uh, no. Kinda like the U.S. soldiers in Iraq don't have power over that government. The Taliban were overthrown. Yes they're still there, but they are not in power.

[McGahee]

Instead of running entire countries, now they're just scattered around. They're still there, and still killing, but it's not like they're Communist Russia over there any more...

[Keeper]

I figured no one would respond to my post.

So I'll just respond to more.

msuspartan2 said:

And that's because we are in a war? Good one.
No, the reason we have low test scores is because we have dumbass people living in our country. People who would rather buy their kid the next Air Jordans than any books or Hooked on Phonics.

We have teens getting pregnant that drink and smoke while they are pregnant. We have kids going out and getting blazed on the weekends, which isn't exactly good for your brain.

We also have piss poor academic standards. D- to pass? Yeah that really motivates kids to do really well. It doesn't help either that we sit and throw welfare out like it's candy either. If they wanna be a bum, they can be, you know why? Because they know the government will just come to the damn rescue and put a frickin check in their hands.

I agree, being in a war should not have any effect on our countries knowledge. That being said, policies like No Child Left Behind have severely hurt the schools, and ALL administrations, not just the current one, have failed to give education the importance it deserves.

I am highly opposed to drug use and wish restrictions were tighter on both drugs and alcohol in this country -- our current policy does not work.

I don't understand why a D- passing is bad... there will always be a lowest possible grade before failing. You are speaking in incredibly harsh generalizations stating that people who receive welfare are bums and are too lazy to support themselves. Either your know realize that you know people on welfare, or you've been very separated from a certain economic branch your whole life.

I think it is absolutely absurd to suggest that people want to be on welfare. I do not deny that there are people who abuse the system, as there are with any program. That being said, most people wish they could afford a higher quality of living. 1 out of 10 people in Ohio are now on federal food stamps. Am I to believe that 10% of those people, most of whom work long hours at jobs that pay terribly, are just lazy and don't deserve federal help?

msuspartan2 said:

Just because Iraq was not our original destination, does it mean we shouldn't be there? How many of you are in charge of the Army? Oh that's right, NONE! You maybe think that the government knows just a little bit more than we do? It also doesn't mean there aren't people still in the country that don't hate us. Last I checked, the Taliban was still in tact. Osama bin Laden was still alive. That's all I need to keep fighting. You think they're just going to quit because they've lost one guy? ARE YOU KIDDING? They filter them in and out.

Argumentum ad Verecundiam fallacy, that's all there is to your point.

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with Al-Qaeda... until we removed a secular government, now allowing Islamic fundamentalists to come into the nation to seek it's control. You will not kill Osama bin Laden in Iraq. You will not destroy the Taliban in Iraq.[/quote]

msuspartan2 said:

They're getting them from the US too! But yet, all our country can do is complain about wire tapping. What's the damn problem if you've got nothing to hide? The government is not going to announce to the nation you're gay or that you have phone sex. They are trying to protect YOU! and all you can sit there and do is bring "privacy" into it.

The problem is that it is unconstitutional, a violation of our liberties as Americans.

msuspartan2 said:

Instead of supporting our troops, we spend more time calling our president a Nazi, making fun of his smile or laugh, and making up stupid f****** 9/11 conspiracy claims. Support your damn country. We have it good here, and quit complaining about George W. Bush. The man has our best interest. He is trying to protect us. He also tried to invest in to education, but ya know what? People shot it down before even giving it a chance.

Just because someone does not support the war does not mean they do not support the troops. This is the same pathetic argument that somehow those who are against the war are "unpatriotic". Please.

I don't doubt that George W. Bush generally means well as a person. The fact is, he has failed as a commander-in-chief and head executive in a way few have matched throughout history.

No Child Left Behind has hurt the public school system so badly, there is nothing about the idea that is good.

msuspartan2 said:

And all the stupid f****** democrats can talk about how they didn't want the war, well, doesn't a approval from Congress have to be passed first? Which means, some democrats had to have voted to invade Iraq.

They did, and that's why many people support Senator Obama, because he spoke out against the war. Hillary Clinton hasn't apologized for getting it wrong, and until she does, I could never consider supporting her. While the argument for the war at the time was overwhelmingly misleading as we have learned, the fact is that it was authorized by Congress. The problem is, they authorized a war based on intelligence we made up out of thin air. That is where the problem is.

msuspartan2 said:

This country makes me sick now. I'm not for universal health care. Some people need it, and sorry if I can't help you one day. But I'm not going to let lazy people come in and just get what they want without having to do anything.

Again, a gross generalization.

[cooljayhu]

msuspartan2 said:

cooljayhu said:

Sure we overthrew the Taliban but you know what?

Last I checked Bin Laden was still alive and they were still going.

I still have seen no proof that Bin Laden is alive or dead. A few grainy videos aren't enough proof for me

[Freak93]

First off, two or three soldiers a day is two or three too many. I have friends serving and if two or three of them were to die, that would be a lot to me. Just because you aren't directly affected doesn't mean that their deaths aren't important. Those deaths are more than a statistic. Even one American casualty should be noted. Just because you don't directly know this person doesn't mean their life wasn't valuable to someone.

The thing with the Middle East is that a lot of the fighting there is over religion, and has been for quite some time. If the U.S. is there or not, there will be fighting. These people hold their religious beliefs very high, even if that means dying for them.

No Child Left Behind is a terrible program. I went to a high school that was in trouble in meeting standards. Let me say this, I cared that I passed what I needed to. However, if I didn't, the courses they put you in were a huge joke and were generally not effective.

As for welfare, I don't know many people who would choose to live like that. Where I play roller hockey I see people who rely on welfare. Most of them don't want that life. Of course some will like not doing anything and getting paid. There were always be those who abuse things that are actually for those in true need. The thing is, do we take away these programs because there are some abusers of the system? No. Then somebody really in need will truly suffer. It would be a different thing if people actually cared and donated to charity/volunteered but they don't. We can all say we do our part, but think about it, do you put for a good effort in helping the less fortunate? (By fortunate I mean those who were thrown into a situation they had no control over.)

Also to add, just because you don't like the President doesn't mean you don't support troops. Every man and woman in the armed services is much braver than I am and most likely always will be. I feel bad for them that they are risking their lives fighting for things we can't bring an end to. I also find it somewhat hypocritical that people imply they support the troops but somehow change 4000 dead human beings into a pointless statistic. Do you support the soldiers until they are killed, then do they just become meaningless? Those numbers represent more than a tally, they represent a person. Someone who was loved and cared about by somebody in this country. Maybe it is just me. I want them to live. I guess I don't support them.

Also, the Bin Laden argument is sort of good. The thing is, I am pretty sure we have Iraq covered and Osama isn't there. When does it end? Wouldn't it be better if we used the resources from this war on improved forms of security for our country instead of playing cat and mouse with a man who may be dead?

[JackTheRipper]

Keeper said anything I could have hoped to.

Also, before responding like an arrogant dick, read my posts. I never said "because of this war, we are getting dumber and dumber." Does DC have problems reading? I said that the war AND education are huge issues.

Again, if you think we need to be in Iraq for any reason, read Keeper's well-said statement.

[Chief Bstn]

because of the war, we're getting dumber and dumber.