Universal Health Care

[JacktheRipper]

keepereusc said:

War in a post-industrial society does not aide the economy in any way.

Yeah it does. More employment (both military and contractors) generally is a good thing for the economy. It also does nothing to hurt it directly. You could argue the prices of commodities are effected, but those have such wide ranging factors that go into the price, the war isn't the only cause.

You can argue it doesn't help the economy, but I'm sure you can't argue that it actually hurts it and be correct in any way shape or form.

[cooljayhu]

buffsbacker said:

www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/06/11/qc-hospitalovercrowding.html

I know where the money comes from .... the majority of those 40 million americans who would benefit pay a small portion of the total taxes collected that it still isn't justified. The arguement for wars and space isn't needed ... simply your opinion so it doesn't figure into the equation.

Figure this: Canada has a national population of 33 million, with roughly 2000 hospitals, which is 16500 people per hospital. In America, we have between 5700 and 7500 hospitals, depending on who you ask with a population of 300 million, 260 million of which are insured. Right now, there is 1 hospital for every 35000 (more than double that of Canada) people ... add in universal health care and the numbers increase to 40000 people per hospital. Again my point is is that quality of care would fall ... the number of people going into the field would dwindle due to enormous strain ... just because it works in Canada doesn't mean it would work in a country 10 times and large.

Living in Canada and trying to implement a system that works there into America just doens't add up.

If I said that the US should just take Canada's system I didn't mean to cause you're right with you're population it prob wouldn't work. But honestly I would rather have the ability to get care rather than being left out in the cold with cancer. Oh and just because somebody is sure doesn't mean they're going to get care. Watch Sicko (if you haven't) and you'll find out what health care companies do when you need their help most.

[dkgojackets]

watch sicko and you also find out how much better medical facilities become when they know a documentary is being filmed

[cooljayhu]

detroitbasketball said:

cooljayhu said:

its paid for with tax dollars that should be going back to the people not fighting useless wars

I love how you've never once addressed any of bama's very valid points about why we should stay there now.

Thats cause I don't agree with his projection that staying there will mean less violence once we leave. I think it won't matter whether we stay there another day or 100 years, a long and bloody civil war is enivitable. So I think why risk more of our soldiers live when what their doing isn't going to change anything in the long run.

[Bearsbacker]

The economy flourished while the war was going on ... the downfall 6 years later isn't a result of a war.

Like bama said, it's more a result of shiesty mortgage practices that allowed so many unqualified buyers to purchase homes only to default 2-3 years later once their ARM adjusted 4-5 points higher. This led to massive amounts of foreclosures ... combine that with a constant barrage of media coverage of the economy and it's minute fluctuations toward the red everyday and you get what we have now.

[JacktheRipper]

buffsbacker said:

The economy flourished while the war was going on ... the downfall 6 years later isn't a result of a war.

Like bama said, it's more a result of shiesty mortgage practices that allowed so many unqualified buyers to purchase homes only to default 2-3 years later once their ARM adjusted 4-5 points higher. This led to massive amounts of foreclosures ... combine that with a constant barrage of media coverage of the economy and it's minute fluctuations toward the red everyday and you get what we have now.

Yeah, pretty much nailed it. I've been waiting for a lot of this to happen since last summer. For example, I was short in Bear Stearns in September. Worked out ok for me...even though I covered way too early.

The point is, there is a lot of illness in this economy that has to get flushed out. The inflation devil is going to hit us hard with the Fed blindly slashing rates to stop the credit collapse that could have been avoided if banks didn't put out so many shitty loans to people they knew couldn't pay them back. I have little sympathy for both the banks who lost money on these loans and the idiots who bought houses when they didn't have the money to pay for it.

Anyway, the war didn't cause the economic problems, like at all...

[Keeper]

I am not making the argument that the economic woes are at the fault of this war, I am just stating that the ridiculous amount of money we are pouring into Iraq is absurd when we obviously have problems that we're going to need to address here.

[JacktheRipper]

keepereusc said:

I am not making the argument that the economic woes are at the fault of this war, I am just stating that the ridiculous amount of money we are pouring into Iraq is absurd when we obviously have problems that we're going to need to address here.

Like what?

[cooljayhu]

like the economy, health care, education, social programs like wealth fare, etc. Pretty much everything

[JacktheRipper]

cooljayhu said:

like the economy, health care, education, social programs like wealth fare, etc. Pretty much everything

Economy isn't effected by the war. Plus the less government is in the economy, probably the better for the economy. Education needs major reform and money isn't the solution. Welfare and other social programs, those are funded well enough as is. I mean, there's enough funding for the dregs who give welfare a bad name to abuse it out there.

Health Care is a valid point. I'm not sure of the right answer to that, but yes healthcare is something we need to actually give some money to. I just don't want to waste it. It needs to be said, I'm not against socialized healthcare, just know the government is going to mess it up. It's late, and I'll explain myself much clearer tomorrow if anyone gives a damn.

[dkgojackets]

Its funny how people just throw stuff out that they hear on TV but actually have no fucking clue what they are talking about.

Throwing money at problems pretty much never works, and its no surprise that the doomsday "our country sucks" people stand to gain by making you believe it will.

[LjSnUo]

bad idea. i don't want to pay for magic johnsons aids. or anybody elses aids. it would cause a drastic decline in our health care system in terms of quality.