War

[Keeper]

msuspartan2 said:

You don't have to like what George W. Bush has done, but seriously, step into his shoes for one day.

That is a hard ass job. Am I saying he is the greatest president? No. Not one of the greats. But people complain about his freakin smile and the way he laughs. That's very sad when a majority of people think of our president is a guy that just laughs funny.

Should we be in Iraq? Maybe, maybe not. I don't have inside information. But the man's first intention is protecting his country. He was faced with a huge problem in 9/11. Back then, every single person in this country who gave a rats ass wanted to go to war and get the bastards who did it. Now, just because we haven't achieved a victory, everyone is complaining. The death toll is nowhere near either of the world wars or the civil war. What would people have said had he not went to war?

Just because George Bush may or may have not made a mistake going to war, why should we not support it? The man's intention was to make sure the bastards didn't do it again. Whether you think so or not, EVERYONE was happy when we finally went over there and set off some bombs.

I don't follow taxes or anything like that, and maybe that is why some of you think he is a bad president. But the war thing shouldn't even be an issue at all. The man did what he thought was best for this country, and I'm sure many of us, if put in the position, would have done the same thing. He wanted to protect this country. Why do people hate him for that.

Clayton was dead on with the people who complain about the war with family. It was their choice to go to war. You do not join the Army to sit around.

Also, just because Iran doesn't have that technology now and whatnot, if they go crazy and nuke us before we have time to react, we will all be screwed.

They hate us over there. Absolutely hate us.

That's just my view about GWB. I don't have to support everything he does, but someone else step into that job for a day. I am glad we have a guy that isn't afraid to protect us.


Not to mention, there is a lot of progress being made that we don't hear about. All we hear about is deaths. I have cousins, brothers, and uncles in the Army. They tell me there are so many improvements over there that we do not even see because of the media.

You never know how people will look back, but Bush's tenure will have to be looked upon as one of the worst in American history.

People have no respect for George W. Bush as a president, because he has no respect for us as citizens. He has lied to and misinformed the American people, stripped away their civil liberties, created an education program that is hurting the schools, and been a nightmare when it comes to taxation. The only positives really is the work his presidency has done on getting rid of homelessness.

We had no business in Iraq. They didn't attack us, they didn't have weapons of mass destruction, there was no relationship to 9/11. It had nothing to do with 9/11. Nevertheless, more people have died in this false war than those who died in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

I support the troops entirely. I do not support the reasons why they're there. He was protecting us from Iraq? There's simply no truth to that.



Nevermind, you believe we should be fighting Iran, it's pointless.

[Buzz Killington]

Because he just learned it in history class, and wanted to show it off.

Johnson didn't do that much though. He tried to get some bad views through, but overall it was Congress that reconstructed the nation, not Johnson. I would have rather had him than the Democrats in office at the time.

Nice to hear that our history class is on pace with the others though.

EDIT for clarity: Goddarned new page, I was responding to cooljay and sportsbuck.

[Sportsbuck]

usmaman said:

Because he just learned it in history class, and wanted to show it off.

Johnson didn't do that much though. He tried to get some bad views through, but overall it was Congress that reconstructed the nation, not Johnson. I would have rather had him than the Democrats in office at the time.

Nice to hear that our history class is on pace with the others though.

EDIT for clarity: Goddarned new page, I was responding to cooljay and sportsbuck.

Uh, for the record, I'm not even in a history class right now, civics and economics.

I know that Usma, but still, Johnson might've been the worst President ever.

[cooljayhu]

you're gonna have to fill me in. what did johnson do hat beats Bush causing the deaths of tens of thousands of people.

[Keeper]

cooljayhu said:

you're gonna have to fill me in. what did johnson do hat beats Bush causing the deaths of tens of thousands of people.

Nothing. Johnson wasn't fit to be a president in the least, and certainly he isn't up there on the great president list, but he didn't do anything overwhelmingly poor.

[Freak93]

Andrew Johnson is pretty bad but I think there may have been worst. It is hard to judge presidents in the time of Reconstruction. It was something new that nobody knew how, or was prepared to deal with.

[Buzz Killington]

Johnson did the best he could. He wanted not to punish the South, he wanted to follow the path Lincoln carved. It was the Radical Congress who sidetracked him.

[Freak93]

usmaman said:

Johnson did the best he could. He wanted not to punish the South, he wanted to follow the path Lincoln carved. It was the Radical Congress who sidetracked him.

That is true. My favorite part was how Congress wanted moral responsibility for the Civil War put on the south.

The bad I think for Andrew Johnson came from his second impeachment.

[JacktheRipper]

loki1230 said:

For all you know Spartan and what many believe, George W. Bush had something to do with 9/11....take into account the many piece of odd evidence and then think about why so many people hate Bush. Look at this random war in Iraq and his interesting friendship with the Bin Laden family itself.

Just about everything Bush has done has ruined this country in one way or another from 9/11 to the Patriot Act to the War in Iraq. He's not one of the greats, you're right; he's quite possibly the worst.

EDIT: And I think people should realize, we have more reasons to fear our "allies", China and Russia, than these tiny Arab nations who can't even develop a way to get fresh water to their towns.

Don't tell me you are one of those "truthers."

[Sportsbuck]

Guys, come on, we all know the real cause of everything that's happened..

Mike Hart.

[I am a huge CUNT]

keepereusc said:

Nevermind, you believe we should be fighting Iran, it's pointless.

I thought you were making good points and now I see a little bit more. I don't pay attention that much, but the stuff I have seems like he is getting criticized for a lot of things that not many other people can handle either.

And I never said we should be fighting Iran. They just scare me. That's all. To make that clear.

[I am a huge CUNT]

sportsbuck2745 said:

Guys, come on, we all know the real cause of everything that's happened..

Mike Hart.

Right on.

[JacktheRipper]

Very few men could have been successful in Johnson's place. If you want to talk bad Presidents, let's look at the forgettables and James Buchanan.

[Keeper]

If you really think about it, it's hard for presidents to be "bad". They just kind of dictate the path the country takes. Unless they completely botch a huge event or something, they really can't do an awful job, just take the country a different direction. I'm probably not doing a good job explaining what I mean, but I hope the idea sort of gets across. Like, each president played a role in getting us where we are today.

[jct32]

You know usually people ripping on Bush bother me, because I don't think he is that bad of a president, but as I learn more and more in my history class it bothers me less and less. It seems many times America has had people get pissed off at the President. Let's take the War of 1812 for example. Britian was bullying us around on the ocean, trying to show us who was daddy. Eventually our president got ticked off and fought them, during the times many people called "Mr. Madison's War". Many people were pissed off and some nothern states even wanted to succeed.

Now we may not have won the war, but as a still relatively new nation. I feel this war was very important for us because Britian was basically pushing us around, even though we had won a war against them already. And us finally standing up to them (again) let them know that we wanted to get some respect from them.

Now all I ask is for you not to judge Bush right now, maybe let a couple of presidents go by and then we can look back, and say "Yea he was a horrible president and our country sucks now because of him." But with all the stuff going bad now-a-days I feel people are going to automatically point to the guy on the top and say its his fault.

Free Feel to disagree or agree with me.

[I am a huge CUNT]

jct32 said:

You know usually people ripping on Bush bother me, because I don't think he is that bad of a president, but as I learn more and more in my history class it bothers me less and less. It seems many times America has had people get pissed off at the President. Let's take the War of 1812 for example. Britian was bullying us around on the ocean, trying to show us who was daddy. Eventually our president got ticked off and fought them, during the times many people called "Mr. Madison's War". Many people were pissed off and some nothern states even wanted to succeed.

Now we may not have won the war, but as a still relatively new nation. I feel this war was very important for us because Britian was basically pushing us around, even though we had won a war against them already. And us finally standing up to them (again) let them know that we wanted to get some respect from them.

Now all I ask is for you not to judge Bush right now, maybe let a couple of presidents go by and then we can look back, and say "Yea he was a horrible president and our country sucks now because of him." But with all the stuff going bad now-a-days I feel people are going to automatically point to the guy on the top and say its his fault.

Free Feel to disagree or agree with me.

You said exactly what I thought, just in better words.

[JacktheRipper]

jct32 said:

You know usually people ripping on Bush bother me, because I don't think he is that bad of a president, but as I learn more and more in my history class it bothers me less and less. It seems many times America has had people get pissed off at the President. Let's take the War of 1812 for example. Britian was bullying us around on the ocean, trying to show us who was daddy. Eventually our president got ticked off and fought them, during the times many people called "Mr. Madison's War". Many people were pissed off and some nothern states even wanted to succeed.

Now we may not have won the war, but as a still relatively new nation. I feel this war was very important for us because Britian was basically pushing us around, even though we had won a war against them already. And us finally standing up to them (again) let them know that we wanted to get some respect from them.

Now all I ask is for you not to judge Bush right now, maybe let a couple of presidents go by and then we can look back, and say "Yea he was a horrible president and our country sucks now because of him." But with all the stuff going bad now-a-days I feel people are going to automatically point to the guy on the top and say its his fault.

Free Feel to disagree or agree with me.

History will always pass final judgement, but I can look at things are they are and say "I'm not happy with the direction Bush took us in."

We should not have gone to Iraq and much less should have gotten invovled in nation building over there. Generals and even Rummy said not to, could turn into a Nam type situation, but we did it anyway. He has put us in a situation where we cannot leave, and has antaginized other middle eastern nations. Not to mention while we are this spread out and have a lot of public disdain for the military, China is exploding into a world superpower. Hell, they may be stronger than the United States in 5 years or so. On top of all of that, military spending is putting more and more pressure on the deficit and our debt to other countries. This worries me.

Let's no mention that he has ruined the GOP in the sense that you have to please the crazy Christian base to actually win the nomination. The GOP now plays identity politics more than the Dems, and that's not a good thing. It marginalizes good conservative canidates that don't think abortion and gay marrage are the most pressing issues in America.

He is also going to face the fact the economy is going to take a big ole shit over the next few months, and that is how people are going to remember the Bush year's economy. That's bad, because in general we had a pretty solid economy during Bush's time in office.

[ryandman89]

I didn't read through this whole thread but here's my opinion. I would definitely go to war if I was asked to do so because I believe that it is important to protect and repay our country for our freedoms. Despite the current situation with Iraq and the dislike for Bush, I think no matter what the situation or who the president, all Americans should be willing to fight for their country because this is the best country in the world.

[Maize]

For what he has done, and what he reputation was when he was elected; after polarizing this country more politically than any president since Nixon. After taking a surplus and creating a deficit. Falsifying more information than any president ever. I put him in the ranks of Buchanon, Johnson, and Pierce. Bottom 5 for sure.

[JacktheRipper]

maizeandblue15 said:

For what he has done, and what he reputation was when he was elected; after polarizing this country more politically than any president since Nixon. After taking a surplus and creating a deficit. Falsifying more information than any president ever. I put him in the ranks of Buchanon, Johnson, and Pierce. Bottom 5 for sure.

I think he's the poster boy of political polarization, but not the cause. The GOP has been doing this since the late 80s/early 90s. Read "What's the Matter with Kansas" or something similar. He goes into some detail about how the right wing has been trying to paint liberals as "out of touch elite" types since that point. That is the biggest cause of polarization, because it makes liberals and conservatives different, at least in the typical GOP supporter's eyes. This isn't even mentioning the religious aspects involved that make it much worse.

I don't think Bush is top 5 all time bad. He was a mistake, but other than Iraq (huge mistake I realize) I don't think he messed up that badly. He is a symptom of today's politics, not the cause. History will be the final judge of that.