Rick Pitino

[hoosier]

I don't like the guy, but I respect him. However, watching ESPN's 50/50 spotlight on Kentucky, and hearing his comments, really makes me wonder on his soundness of mind.

He claimed that the best rivalry is Kentucky/Louisville, and the best state for basketball (on the collegiate level) is--"without a doubt"--Kentucky.

Ok. UK/UL is a GOOD rivalry. A GREAT rivalry even, lately. But it's not on the same level as Duke/UNC, in my opinion. Not even close. Those two teams, no matter how much I hate them, just seem to take the game to an entirely different level whenever they play. So many games between the two teams have gone down to the wire, or featured incredible performances, or incredible comebacks. It's mind-blowing. As for the best basketball state, well... still a stretch. They have UK and UL. WKU was good, for a little while, but not really anymore. And that's it. If he wants to put them up against North Carolina's best programs, UNC/Duke/WF/NCST, well, go ahead, but he won't win. Again, I don't think it's a close race at all. That isn't to say that the fans there are the best, just that the level of talent and competition at the collegiate level in North Carolina is more incredible than any other state can boast, Kentucky included. UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest were top 10-caliber teams last season. NC State played, at times, like a top 25 team. I can't imagine it'd be easy for any unbiased fan to say that, collectively, Kentucky and Louisville rivals and even exceeds North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, and NC State in "great"ness.

[sep]

Rick Pitino is a figgin moron if he thinks Kentucky Louisville is ANYWHERE close to UNC/Duke. And as far as kentucky being the best college b-ball state. Ummm no, wrong again Rick. Im in 100% agreement with you hoosier.

[allstarmike2k5]

I also do too...UNC Duke will always be the best....they hate each other so much that it is always going to be a good game. Best College basketball state is NC 100% many of the great stars in the NBA are from NC...MJ is the one that hits first...and we all know about him....so to Pitino you need some professional help with those kind of comments...

[DC Admin]

OK, I'm definitely not one to defend Pitino, but I'm going to have to defend my home state on this one. I can understand how some people feel that UNC-Duke is a greater rivalry, and I would agree that it's one of the best. But part of the hype in that series has been a product of the ACC-hype machine that is ESPN. They televise ACC games almost every night during the college b-ball season. They have Duke-grads Jason Williams and Jay Bilas as broadcasters (tho I think Bilas is pretty objective most of the time). They air more stories about Coach K than any other networks combined. (OK, I made that up.)

And don't try to tell me that the reason for that is that the ACC is the "best" b-ball conference EVERY YEAR. That's garbage. There are several other conferences that have produced just as well as the ACC.

The UK-UL basketball rivalry has evolved in a much different manner than the UNC-Duke series. Until about 20 years ago, UK-UL hardly played each other. Duke-UNC play 2 times every year. That tends to dilute the importance of the game a bit. Still a great game, and I admit I love wathing them too. But greatest rivalry game?

Since the original Dream Game in1983 (UL beat UK in the NCAA Regionals), UK-UL play EVERY Year because once the teams started playing, the schools realized how much fanfare it brought. The entire state gets caught up in it. The excitement has grown so much that it's poured over into football (the lesser sport in the state), as now UK-UL play in football every year. Before that started happening, along with UL's recent success, people around here couldn't wait for basketball season to start. The old joke was when the football season started people would just ask "When's Midnight Madness?"

And if you're going to make an argument, you need to look at the entire history of the schools involved. UK/UL have a combined 9 National Titles. Duke-UNC have 6 I believe. And if you're talking about who produces the most NBA talent, I believe UK leads all schools in that category (or at least they did last season) with about 9 players on active rosters. Duke/UNC probably beat out UK/UL combined though. Still, that's not really an adequate argument for "best collegiate" rivalry.

I could see where an argument could be made for Indiana being a better basketball state overall than Kentucky. I might actually agree there. But on the collegiate level, Kentucky rivals no one. But that's just my opinion. ;-)

And since I'm a UK fan, I'll throw out some random stats for ya:
Alltime Wins: 1888 (NCAA rank #1)
Alltime Winning Percentage: .765 (1888-579, NCAA rank #1)
NCAA Tournament Appearances: 45 (NCAA rank #1)
NCAA Championships: 7 (NCAA rank #2)
NCAA Championship Game Appearances: 10 (NCAA rank #2)
NCAA Tournament wins: 93 (NCAA rank #1)
NCAA Final Four Appearances: 13 (NCAA rank #3)
NCAA Elite 8 Appearances: 30 (NCAA rank #1)
NCAA Sweet 16 Appearances: 39 (NCAA rank #1)
NCAA Tournament Games Played: 133 (NCAA rank #1)
NCAA Tournament Winning Percentage: .700 (93-40, NCAA rank #3)
All-Americans: 39 (NCAA rank #1)
All-American Selections: 57 (NCAA rank #1)
First Team Consensus All-Americans: 15 (NCAA rank #1)
First Team Consensus All-American Selections: 20 (NCAA rank #1)
1000 Point Scorers: 52 (NCAA rank #3)
Players drafted by the NBA/ABA: 81 (NCAA rank #1)
Conference Championships: 42 (NCAA rank #1)
Conference Tournament Championships: 25 (NCAA rank #1)
Final AP Top-10 Rankings: 37 (NCAA rank #1)
Final AP #1 Rankings: 8 (NCAA rank #1)
Final UPI/Coach's Top-10 Rankings: 32 (NCAA rank #1)
Final UPI/Coach's #1 Rankings: 7 (NCAA rank #1)
20 Win Seasons: 49 (NCAA rank #1)
25 Win Seasons: 27 (NCAA rank #1)
30 Win Seasons: 11 (NCAA rank #1)
35 Win Seasons: 3 (NCAA rank #1)
Seasons .500 Or Better: 88 (NCAA rank #1)
Winning Seasons: 85 (NCAA rank #1)
Consecutive Non-Losing Seasons: 60 (1928-1988, NCAA rank #1)
Consecutive Home-Court Wins: 129 (1943-1955, NCAA rank #1)

[hoosier]

admin said:

And don't try to tell me that the reason for that is that the ACC is the "best" b-ball conference EVERY YEAR. That's garbage. There are several other conferences that have produced just as well as the ACC.

Well, I agree there. I've always believed the ACC has been over-hyped. They have strong teams at the top, but the bottom is as weak as any other conference. If you want to look at depth, I'd give the nod to the Big East, especially now with Louisville/Cincinnati/Marquette joining their ranks. Top-to-bottom, I don't think any conference can compete with what they have.

admin said:

Since the original Dream Game in1983 (UL beat UK in the NCAA Regionals), UK-UL play EVERY Year because once the teams started playing, the schools realized how much fanfare it brought. The entire state gets caught up in it. The excitement has grown so much that it's poured over into football (the lesser sport in the state), as now UK-UL play in football every year. Before that started happening, along with UL's recent success, people around here couldn't wait for basketball season to start. The old joke was when the football season started people would just ask "When's Midnight Madness?"

Well, ok, all you've really done there is making a case for why UK/UL is the greatest rivalry in the state of Kentucky. Which I don't disagree with. Living in Bloomington, I can feel some of that enthusiasm, given the decline of our basketball program. But on a national level, I don't know that it can compete. UNC/Duke is appealing to a lot of markets, which is part of the reason ESPN markets it so aggressively. It seems that so many of their games end up with a classic finish, whereas the only game I can recal that fits the bill with UK/UL is the last one when Patrick Sparks got fouled on the three (a total BS call IMO, by the way ) to win the game. Of course, the down-side to that argument is that I really only recall the last two games UK/UL have played against each other, so feel free to strike that one down.

It is a GREAT rivalry, don't get me wrong, especially since Pitino took over to flesh out the storyline even more, and I love watching the games and rooting against UK (but as a Hoosier, would you really expect anything less from me?). But, and I'm speaking mostly in reference to recent history, not all-time, it just doesn't match up very well against Duke/UNC. I don't think the fact that they play twice a year dilutes the rivalry at all. If anything, it maybe strengthens it. The revenge factor would be much prevalent if your entire roster is in still in tact just months after one team beat the other. Players become more familiar with each other, especially with the campuses' proximities, and that adds a new dimension to the game.

I will give you this, though. UK has Ashley Judd. And that's good enough for me.

admin said:

I could see where an argument could be made for Indiana being a better basketball state overall than Kentucky. I might actually agree there. But on the collegiate level, Kentucky rivals no one. But that's just my opinion. ;-)

I won't even try to make that argument. Right now, Indiana may only be the best basketball state if you're looking in at it in terms of high school talent.

Kentucky has the best high school playoff system. (It was Indiana, hands down, until the IHSAA made one of the most idiotic moves ever and abolished the one-class system.) On a collegiate level, Indiana is down from recent years. Valpo is down since Bryce Drew left for Baylor and Homer came out of retirement, Notre Dame has levelled off at mediocre and under-achieving, Mike Davis has driven Indiana into depths we hadn't seen in almost 20 years, and Purdue just stunk up the basketball world last year. IUPUI had one nice year where they made it into the tournament, and Butler hasn't been good since they were 20-6 and still didn't get an NCAA bid.

[nafsder2007]

hoosier said:

Kentucky has the best high school playoff system. (It was Indiana, hands down, until the IHSAA made one of the most idiotic moves ever and abolished the one-class system.)

Without a doubt, Indiana basketball went down the tube with that move. And they don't even play the championship in historic Hinkle Fieldhouse anymore. Don't get me wrong...winning state in any division in basketball in Indiana is still quite a feat...but it just isn't fun witihout the chance of Pike, Lawrence North, and North Central getting upset.

[DC Admin]

Sorry for not following up. Hoosier, it's very hard to argue with any of your points there. All fine ones. I'm sure I'm probably a bit bias coming from where I do, and how I grew up. I can easily see how places outside NC/KY would feel that way.

[darjarbinx]

That's an impressive resume, I am sorry but what's your reasoning for not pulling for U of L? I don't know the geopgrahy down there so I wouldn't know cross town rivals.

[DC Admin]

Just grew up bleeding blue. I actually graduated from UL's engineering school, so I still cheer for them a little. Being a big sports fan, I firmly believe you don't ever switch teams. The only excuse, IMO, for switching your allegiances are:

1) You actually played a sport at a school that's not your favorite.
2) Your children went to/played a sport at a school that's not your favorite.

That's about it, but those are just my rules. Which made it excruciatingly painful to watch the Cowboys during the 80s (but all the better in the 90s), the Celtics in the 90s, UK football every year, and UK basketball during the scandal years in the 80s.

Louisville is more urban and not a college town like Lexington is, so we've got probably a 60-40 split of UL-to-UK fans. Lexington is way more lopsided because it's a college town. There are quite a few UK fans in Louisville, and Cincinnati as well.

[darjarbinx]

I see what you mean. State College is a very college oriented town like Lexington. I basically have to root for them because my father and mother went their and I live a whole 15 minutes from the Beav.

[bmaster]

I don't think anyone can say what is "the greatest rivalry" because it all depends who you're talking to. The most important rivalry to me is Illinois State vs. Bradley. We sold out Redbird Arena this year for that game for the first time since our last NCAA tourney appearance (1998). For people who like UNC or Duke then they're idea of the biggest rivalry is UNC-Duke. For those who like Kentucky or Louisville, you got their biggest rivalry. I really don't care about either one of those games though cause why should I.

[hoosier]

bmaster said:

I don't think anyone can say what is "the greatest rivalry" because it all depends who you're talking to. The most important rivalry to me is Illinois State vs. Bradley. We sold out Redbird Arena this year for that game for the first time since our last NCAA tourney appearance (1998). For people who like UNC or Duke then they're idea of the biggest rivalry is UNC-Duke. For those who like Kentucky or Louisville, you got their biggest rivalry. I really don't care about either one of those games though cause why should I.

Well, that's true, but greatness and importance aren't necessarily intertwined. I hate Duke, and I hate North Carolina, but I absolutely love when they play each other. They're classic battles. It's a great rivalry. Is it important to me? No, not really. I couldn't care less, but it's fun to watch. Great, but not important, which is an important distinction.