Super Bowl XLI Thread: Colts vs. Bears

[Gary]

buffsbacker said:

DB got it right...Kitna had a great season yardage wise, but when you throw more interceptions than touchdowns, that's not ok.

Combining Regular season with Post, Grossman combined for 26 touchdowns and 23 interceptions, you silly. If thats what you're eluding too, that is.

[Sportsbuck]

We're not saying that Grossman can't lead a team to wins. Hell, Trent Dilfer was the worst quarterback I've ever seen, yet he won a Super Bowl. We're just saying that he is not a Top-15, maybe not Top-20 quarterback in the NFL.

When the pressure shines brightest on him, Rex dissapears.

[Cerrano39]

Only Mike Vick, Vince Young, Andrew Walter, and Bruce Gradkowski had a worse completion percentage.

And I'm sorry, there's no way to cut it, 20 interceptions is unacceptable as an NFL quarterback.

[Gary]

So 28 is ok?

(Peyton Manning's first full season saw him throw 28 picks)

[Sportsbuck]

You cannot compare Grossman and Manning. Two completely different cases.

[Gary]

I'm not, I'm comparing thier first full season. No one knew Manning would turn into what his is now than. Thats all I'm saying. If 20 is bad now, 28 must have been god awful than.

[Sportsbuck]

Hence your comparing them.

[Gary]

Comparing thier first full seasons, if they both started in the NFL at the same time, which is worse?

Manning: 26 touchdowns 28 picks, a 3-13 record.

Grossman: 23 touchdowns, 20 picks, a 13-3 record and a trip to the Superbowl.

I'm not comparing Grossman to Manning right now, but comparing thier first full seasons, and making a point in that you can't bail on a Quarterback in his first full season, look how well things worked out for the Colts? Because they had faith the Manning would improve, and low and behold.

[JacktheRipper]

Manning was a rookie, and Rex has been in the league for a few years. There is a huge difference.

[Gary]

Ok your right, so lets look at Manning 4th season in the NFL. Though it wont be as accuarate seeing as Grossmans first 3 seasons saw him start 4 games, due to injury.

Manning: 26 touchdowns and 23 picks, while leading the Colts to a 6-10 record.

Grossman: 26 touchdowns and 23 picks (playoffs included), 13-3 record, trip to the Superbowl.

The EXACT amount of picks and touchdown Rex Grossman threw all year! Infact the first season Manning didnt thow 15+ interceptions was his 6th season! And look what he is now, a Superbowl MVP!

My point is, it's too early to say Grossman this and Grossman that, next year is his contract year, let him do the talking with his gameplay.

[Cerrano39]

True, put those Colts teams were no one near as complete and good as the current Bears are.

Rex's TD-INT Ratio is 27-26 and he throws 1.08 interceptions per game.

For comparison quarterbacks like David Carr, Jon Kitna, Eli Manning, Charlie Frye, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, J.P. Losman, and Jake Plummer are all very similar in those two statistical categories. Most, have never been on good teams, none have won anything. While the Giants (Eli) and Denver (Plummer) have been good at times, the reason they never made that next jump was the quarterback.

The Bears will continue to be good as long as Urlacher and co. stick around, but with Rex they won't ever win anything. So, his W-L record is more an indication of the team around him, rather than him.

And sure, just like any NFL quarterback, he does have glimpses of being a very good QB. I don't think anyone would question his arm and throwing ability. It is his awareness and intagibles that people don't believe in. Those are much harder to acquire, learn, or be taught (if they can). A guy like Ryan Leaf had an amazing arm, but was too crazy to do anything. The NFL is littered with guys who can throw but still can't be good quarterbacks.

Now, I'm not comparing Rex to Leaf or the likes of a Cade McNown, but I don't ever see the Bears winning a Superbowl if he is QB.

[NoT25hAbY]

It's not bright to compare Rex Grossman and Peyton Manning season-by-season, because of what Cerrano just said. The difference between Grossman and Manning isn't about arm strength or accuracy, it's judgement and leadership skills.

You put Rex Grossman in a clutch game and he throws inaccurate passes while on the run. In the Superbowl, he threw a very horible pass while scrambling to the outside that should have never been thrown.... Manning in the same situation continues to read his receivers and makes his judgement as he's being drilled.

The result... Grossmans passes are either picked or batted down while Mannings are being cought for clutch first downs.

I will be the first to tell you that when you see Grossman throw the ball, he's got more zip and accuracy on 5-15 yarders than anyone whos ever played... but he's an immature starting quarterback. He lost a superbowl his defense put him in... oh well.

Let's see if he can turn into a Trent Green, who ages into a brilliant quarterback or Drew Bledsoe who makes rookie mistakes time after time.

[Bearsbacker]

Here are this years "first year" quarterbacks........HERE WE GO REX...HERE WE GO!!!

Tony Romo:
Rating: 95.1
Yardage: 2903
TDs: 19
INTs: 13

Philip Rivers:
Rating: 92.0
Yardage: 3388
TDs : 22
INTs: 9

JP Losman:
Rating: 84.9
Yardage: 3051
TDs : 19
INTs: 14

David Garrard:
Rating: 80.5
Yardage: 1735
TDs : 10
INTs: 9

Rex Grossman:
Rating: 73.9
Yardage: 3193
TDs : 23
INTs: 20

[Loki]

Why'd you post that man? To be honest that list actually makes Sexy Rexy look worse than everyone but David Garrard and if Garrard played a whole season he'd probably be better than him too. Yea his yardage is nice but his rating is the lowest (worse than Losman makes him look really bad) and his TD-INT ratio is worse than anyone else's on that list as well minus David Garrard.

And the Manning/Grossman comparison just doesn't add up. Manning is far greater and it will always be that way. The Colts were pretty bad for awhile for Manning...Grossman has himself a nice team on both sides of the ball.

[Terps]

I just wanted to point out that Losman is a second year starter, he just got his ass benched last season in favor of Kelly Holcombe.

I look at Sexy Rexy like this. He obviously has the physical ability, he's got a good arm. Just give him another year to see if he can develop those physical abilities. If he sucks, obviously, you go in a different direction. But while you give him another chance next year, have a back up plan (draft a QB, sign someone maybe) in place, since the Bears obviously have the D to be competitive.

[Gary]

^^^^^^^^^

[McGahee]

mcgahee26 said:

Colts 31
Bears 19

Blast! Just two points too many on both sides...

[Bearsbacker]

loki1230 said:

Why'd you post that man? To be honest that list actually makes Sexy Rexy look worse than everyone but David Garrard and if Garrard played a whole season he'd probably be better than him too. Yea his yardage is nice but his rating is the lowest (worse than Losman makes him look really bad) and his TD-INT ratio is worse than anyone else's on that list as well minus David Garrard.

And the Manning/Grossman comparison just doesn't add up. Manning is far greater and it will always be that way. The Colts were pretty bad for awhile for Manning...Grossman has himself a nice team on both sides of the ball.

I didn't post that to make Rex look good, it was a comparison of this year's newbie QB's. Rex was the worst.....there is no comparison.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing that "Favre and Manning had those numbers..." because for every Favre and Manning, you get 20 McNowns.

Grossman's mistakes can't be fixed...plain and simple.

Again, I'm not defending Rex, I want a new QB.

[bearcat]

I've been hearing that Jeff Garcia might end up in Chicago next season.

[Bearsbacker]

If that happens, Chuck Norris might even cry and so cancer would be CURED!!!