Cubs re-ink Dempster

[bmaster]

Ok Cantaur, the numbers prove he did an OKAY job, but he's not one of the best in the National League.

[Centaur]

WTF Do you want from your closer? 33/35 with 1.85 ERA, thats damn near the best ERA and it is the best Save percentage. I don't know what else you want.

[bravest]

The thing is, you're blinding by the fact that you think that ERA and SV/OPP are the only things that define closers.

[Centaur]

Im Blinded by the fact that he had the BEST SAVE PERCENTAGE !!! THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE. No other closer in all of Baseball, was as successful as he was in closing a game.

[bravest]

I honestly don't care how many saves he has, and that's the point I'm trying to make. Ever wonder how, if Mariano Rivera only has 8 saves because he was out for the majority of the year with an injury, he still gets praised? Do you know why? Not because he converted a perfect 8/8 save opportunities, but that he ended the year with an extremely low ERA (or in a better case, WHIP). Don't you think it's ironic how a pitcher can come into the game in the ninth with a 10-run lead, blow it to where it's only a 2-run lead, get the final out, and get ticketed with the save?

[Cerrano39]

The reason it is worrisome is because the numbers point to it being a fluke. I think what Bravest is trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong) is that he has gotten lucky sometimes and if he hadn't, his numbers would've been drastically different.

Billy Beane traded away Hudson and Mulder b/c their strikeout rates (among other things) had fallen. And while they both enjoyed pretty successful years on good teams, their K rates and other numbers fell again. This is not to say they will all of the sudden suck, but they will compared to their salary. They were no longer the great value they had been, according to Beane. Baseball is all about predicting.

[bravest]

You put it in a nutshell, and I thank you for that.

What I love most about Beane is how he scouts around the league, quietly, for talent that he can submit to his ways. You find prospects like Danny Haren and [dare I say his name] Joe Kennedy, but they always seem to work for him.

[Centaur]

bravest said:

Don't you think it's ironic how a pitcher can come into the game in the ninth with a 10-run lead, blow it to where it's only a 2-run lead, get the final out, and get ticketed with the save?

Thanks for proving your baseball stupidity, a pitcher is only awarded a save opportunity, if the team is up by a number of runs <= number of inherited base runners + 2 OR pitches at least 1 full inning with team up by 3 or less, obviously pitcher must be the last to pitch for the team and team must win. If a player comes into the game in the 9th up 10 runs, there is no way it is a save opportunity. Oh and Rivera gets a ton of credit because hes the best damn closer in baseball, also why he makes 10.5 million a year.

On a second note, for whoever doesn't think a closer is one of the most valuable positions in baseball, ask the Atlanta Braves fans if they would have liked to had a GOOD closer, instead of losing a 5 run lead, giving up 4 in the 8th and 1 more with 2 outs in the 9th. (Astro's closer Brad Lidge, gave up 0 along with pretty much the rest of the bullpen).

I know while it may be amazing to consider that a closer has a ton of value, coming in for 1 inning. But not having a closer just ended the Braves season.

[bmaster]

Closers are important because the runs they give up (or dont' give up) have more value than those of the starting pitchers. However, most bullpen pitchers are in the bullpen because they're not good enough to start for either: a. lack of stamina, or b. lack of stuff.

[bravest]

centaur said:

On a second note, for whoever doesn't think a closer is one of the most valuable positions in baseball, ask the Atlanta Braves fans if they would have liked to had a GOOD closer, instead of losing a 5 run lead, giving up 4 in the 8th and 1 more with 2 outs in the 9th. (Astro's closer Brad Lidge, gave up 0 along with pretty much the rest of the bullpen).

I would, if I had the money, buy a baseball team, give it to you, and watch you run it straight into the ground... You're telling me that you'd pay Rivera close to $12 million a season for one inning a game, when a AA reliever could, on some level, do just as good? Don't get me wrong, I respect Rivera for the great job he does at his job, but I'd much rather spend that money on a valuable number two starter for my rotation.

[Centaur]

Ok, I am no saying I would take Rivera on his 10.5M salery, but if you give me a limit like the Yankees, damn stright I would. I would gladly spend roughly 35M on my pitching staff, save about 5-6M for the Closer, 30M for my starters and members of the bullpen, of that about 6M would go the the pen, leaving 24M for 2 good starters a solid third, and two young players probably from the farm system. And on a mid market team, that still leaves 35-40M for postion players. Thats where you have to be good at who to pay and what to get from them.

Side Note: Just think, the Astros are paying Jeff Bagwell $18M he was injured almost all season, and now hes only pinch hitting.

[bravest]

The Astros have an obvious love for Bagwell that goes beyond money, and I'm convinced that they'll do anything for him if he retires an Astro.

[Centaur]

Bagwell will retire next year when his contract is up. Under assumption, thats probly when Clemens will also retire. Which will free up a total of $36 Million for the Astro's to use.

BTW: Roger Clemens makes $18,000,001, and he is worth every dollar of it.

[Gary]

What the hell is the point of making $18,000,001? Is $18,000,000 asking for too little?

[bravest]

I think it might have been a typo.

[bmaster]

It's probably some clause in his contract saying if he does something than he makes one more dollar than something.

[Centaur]

it wasn't a typo...Roger said he was worth more than Pedro Martinez, Pedro makes 18M...so Roger gets 18M and 1, proving hes worth more.

Ok as an edit to this, I went to see saleries,
Roger Makes 18,000,022
Pedro is like 10.5.

I don't remember exactly who it was that he thought he was worth more than, but that was the story.