McGahee
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Post by McGahee on Oct 13, 2005 18:06:55 GMT -5
Surprised to see nobody made a topic about this already. Anyways, I assume you all saw the Angels-Sox game highlight where the catcher clearly caught the ball after Pieryznksi (I gave it a shot) swung and missed, and the umpire ruled him out swinging, but Pierzynski (seems more right) ran to 1st and the umprie assumed the catcher dropped the ball, and basically cost the Angels the game. Okay I suck at explaining, but you all know what happened. So what's your whole outlook on this...
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sep
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Post by sep on Oct 13, 2005 18:08:52 GMT -5
That was the wrong call in my opinion. The catcher obviously caught it, and AJ swung and missed. He should have been out, inning over, on to the extras.
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darjarbinx
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Post by darjarbinx on Oct 13, 2005 18:10:47 GMT -5
Easy for you to say.
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bearcat
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Post by bearcat on Oct 13, 2005 18:12:35 GMT -5
Anyone else think that instant replay should be introduced to MLB?
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sep
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Post by sep on Oct 13, 2005 18:14:03 GMT -5
Anyone else think that instant replay should be introduced to MLB? Definetly, im sick of wrong calls being made in sports. ALL sports need to have instant replay available. |
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Post by Freak93 on Oct 13, 2005 18:14:46 GMT -5
Anyone else think that instant replay should be introduced to MLB? Agreed. It will make the game better. I just don't think Bud Selig would do it though. DOWN WITH SELIG. |
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darjarbinx
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Post by darjarbinx on Oct 13, 2005 18:15:36 GMT -5
No, the games are too long as it is.
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McGahee
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Post by McGahee on Oct 13, 2005 18:16:20 GMT -5
I understand the umpire couldn't have seen if the ball was caught or not, but here's why I understand where the umpire was coming from.
Pierzynski went off running. The ump obvioulsy was unable to see the ball, and if the batter starts running, he should assume that the ball bounced, especially seeing how the catcher never showed the ump the ball that he caught it.
But the fact of the matter is that he ruled the batter out, and you CANNOT reverse that call. Once he's out, he's out. There was no conclusive evidence by any of the other umpires that the ball was dropped, so therefore, the play should have stood. But then again, if the ball did bounce at the last second (hypothetically), and the ump ruled him out because he essentially saw the same thing happen with only a slightly marginal difference, and Pierzynski ran but called him out, the ump would have taken the same heat. It's a tough call, and I'm upset that the ump got the wrong call and cost my WS Prediction AL representative the game, but you gotta go with your gut, and he just didn't do that. He was unsure, and flipflopped on it in all the confusion.
But you know from here on out, the catcher will show the ump the ball after every swinging strike 3, whether it be near the dirt or at the numbers. The catcher should have done that, especially on such a low pitch...
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Centaur
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Post by Centaur on Oct 13, 2005 18:30:16 GMT -5
I don't blame the ump so much as the catcher...Umps make wrong calls, everyone knows that...had the catcher done what he should have, after realizing he wasn't called out, he should have thrown the ball down to first...Its the catchers fault for not knowing what the call was.
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sep
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Post by sep on Oct 13, 2005 18:32:14 GMT -5
I think the Angels would have won if not they pulled Molina for a speedier base runner. He would have shown the ump the ball unlike the unexpierenced guy.
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bearcat
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Post by bearcat on Oct 13, 2005 18:57:10 GMT -5
Isn't Bengie's backup his own brother?
Actually, games are getting shorter and shorter. I know they had a thing about it a while back, but I'm too lazy at this point to go back and find the statistical info.
Even then, things like instant replay cost a good amount of $$.
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sep
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Post by sep on Oct 13, 2005 18:58:24 GMT -5
Isn't Bengie's backup his own brother? Not last night, they put in some white guy that looked REAL young. |
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Post by JacktheRipper on Oct 13, 2005 19:07:09 GMT -5
First off the catcher should have tagged him for safe measure. If I was a manager, my catcher would tag if the ball was low no matter what. First mistake.
Second was that all the umps had a bad look. It was very close and really they didn't want to cost the Sox the game on something like that. Remember, the Angles were still winning at that point so they could have struck the next guy out and still won the ballgame. The call didn't make the differance as much, note that "as much," as did the Angles not putting the Sox out of the game.
That's my take at least.
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McGahee
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Post by McGahee on Oct 13, 2005 19:17:13 GMT -5
I don't blame the ump so much as the catcher...Umps make wrong calls, everyone knows that...had the catcher done what he should have, after realizing he wasn't called out, he should have thrown the ball down to first...Its the catchers fault for not knowing what the call was. The ump called it an out, so that's why the catcher tossed the ball and ran into the dugout... yeah the catcher should have tagged him for safe measure, but the ump said Pierzynski swung and missed, and the catcher caught the ball. It wasn't until the batter started running that the umpire changed the call... |
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Post by JacktheRipper on Oct 13, 2005 19:20:31 GMT -5
I don't blame the ump so much as the catcher...Umps make wrong calls, everyone knows that...had the catcher done what he should have, after realizing he wasn't called out, he should have thrown the ball down to first...Its the catchers fault for not knowing what the call was. The ump called it an out, so that's why the catcher tossed the ball and ran into the dugout... yeah the catcher should have tagged him for safe measure, but the ump said Pierzynski swung and missed, and the catcher caught the ball. It wasn't until the batter started running that the umpire changed the call... Did the third base ump overrule? I didn't see the play till afterwards and I would think third base could overrule with a lefty in the box. If not, a mistake yes, but that's the good thing about a series you can be screwed and you can still come back and win. |
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McGahee
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Post by McGahee on Oct 13, 2005 19:40:27 GMT -5
The ump called it an out, so that's why the catcher tossed the ball and ran into the dugout... yeah the catcher should have tagged him for safe measure, but the ump said Pierzynski swung and missed, and the catcher caught the ball. It wasn't until the batter started running that the umpire changed the call... Did the third base ump overrule? I didn't see the play till afterwards and I would think third base could overrule with a lefty in the box. If not, a mistake yes, but that's the good thing about a series you can be screwed and you can still come back and win. According to some former umpire on ESPN earlier tonight, the only person that could have had a good enough view of the play was the 2nd base umpire, but he was standing in centerfield because there was no runner on 1st at the time, so it would be impossible for him to see from that far away. |
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nafsder2007
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Post by nafsder2007 on Oct 14, 2005 0:18:01 GMT -5
Anyone else think that instant replay should be introduced to MLB? Definitely not. With the addition of the instant replay, you effectively lose the skill of umpiring. No longer is he required to make split second decisions or to even be human. The addition of instant replays, in any sport, is the begining in eliminating the human aspects of the game altogether. Sick of bad calls? Let's replace the umpires primary duty with a video. What's next? Are you sick of wild pitches? Should we bring in a pitching machine? Instant replay is the single worst thing for sports. It would more detrimental to the game than the designated hitter, smaller ballparks, and artificial turf combined. Now for the actual call. The home plate umpire had no possible way of seeing whether or not the ball had bounced. He initially had called him out (twice actually) so his call should have ended the inning. BUT, the call ended up being the right one despite the fact that the ump had no view of the catcher's glove. About a minute and a half after the play, FOX showed a zoomed in replay at about one frame per second. In the replay, you could clearly see the ball about three inches off the dirt in one frame, about an inch off the dirt in the second, and then again about three inches off the dirt in the third all without the Paul moving his glove. The glove looked to be tilted slightly downward leading me to believe that the ball ricocheted off of the ground and not off of another part of the glove. So, at least the way I saw it, the call ended up being correct, but the ump was A. never in position to make the call and B. to late in making the call. By the time you signal out twice, the inning should be over. Had Paul not tossed the ball back to the mound, there still would have been no first baseman to throw the ball down to because the ump's signals had already sent all the Angels towards the dugout. Regardless, as a catcher, it's better to be safe than sorry. Obviously it was a weak pitcher. Unless it is blatantly obvious that you caught the ball, just tag the runner. Oh well, what's done is done. |
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nafsder2007
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Post by nafsder2007 on Oct 14, 2005 0:21:11 GMT -5
The ump called it an out, so that's why the catcher tossed the ball and ran into the dugout... yeah the catcher should have tagged him for safe measure, but the ump said Pierzynski swung and missed, and the catcher caught the ball. It wasn't until the batter started running that the umpire changed the call... Did the third base ump overrule? I didn't see the play till afterwards and I would think third base could overrule with a lefty in the box. If not, a mistake yes, but that's the good thing about a series you can be screwed and you can still come back and win. Nope. The homeplate umpire overruled his own call. And to McGahee_21, Pierzynski had no angle to see the ball either. The ump made the call in a state of panic and confusion, not because the runner took off. |
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Jami
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Post by Jami on Oct 14, 2005 18:05:45 GMT -5
The home ump didn't call him out...he explained that his "Strike 3" sign is that fist...the umps are allowed to have different "strikeout" and "out" signs, and it being the 9th inning, the Angels should've known what the home ump's signals were. I'd say it's more the Angel catcher's fault, but here's the thing - NO ONE will care after the next game or two. This happened in Game TWO, people...it's not like the game forced a Game 7 or was even a Game 7 itself. It was Game 2. Believe it or not, there'll be at least three more games...that one call will just be one insignificant moment in the series when it's all said and done.
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nafsder2007
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Post by nafsder2007 on Oct 14, 2005 18:11:39 GMT -5
If the Angels win, it will be just a blip on the radar, but if they don't, it's going to become quite a scapegoat.The Cubs had a chance after Bartman, the Sox had one after Buckner, but neither came through so they blamed those minor incidents. When I watched the replay, I asumed that his arm swing was his strike 3 call and his fist was his out call.
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