Should prayer be allowed at school sports events??

[detroitbasketball]

freak93 said:

msuspartan2 said:

I'm not saying that they should be an outsider because they don't stand for it, that's fine.

But isn't it their own choice to stay out of the prayer? No one is forcing them out of the prayer.

That is the thing though, they are not there to pray. They are there to be part of a team, play the sport. By engaging in prayer, you are keeping him outside. The only way for him to lose that label is to join in prayer. I don't pray at all, don't believe in God, and I would not join in the prayer, but yet still feel like an outsider. If this was the Roman Catholic Popes football team and then I didn't pray, I would understand. The point is, you are a non-religious school and prayer should not be there. If you want to do it with yourself or a teammate or to, then fine. However, the whole team doing it just isn't fair to those who don't believe in God.

If they want to pray, they should be allowed to pray, and if they don't want to pray, they shouldn't feel obligated to do it. It's a little thing called freedom of speech/freedom of religion.

[I am a huge CUNT]

Why would they feel like an outsider if they don't stand for it?

[Freak93]

msuspartan2 said:

Why would they feel like an outsider if they don't stand for it?

When the whole team is kneeling together praying and you are off to the side, how won't you feel like an outsider? I think you may be missing the outsider point. You are not an outsider from religion or prayer, you feel like an outsider from the team.

[detroitbasketball]

I find it hard to believe that every single player but one is fully willing to pray. I honestly think the one kid was just standing up for what he believed in (or perhaps in this case, what he didn't believe in) which is just fine. I admire him for not conforming (of course, it was his dad, I don't quite know where the kid stands in all this). Are we going to knock the NFL players who gather after games to pray on the field? The only difference is there's less of them.

[Freak93]

I was just using the one kid as the example because of the original post mentioning one child's father. When you can't engage in something with your team, you really do feel left out. Now imagine that before every single game and you have to see it.

The thing with the NFL is that it is on the field, after the game. If you don't want to engage in prayer, the locker room awaits. Holding hands and engaging in prayer in the locker room before the game is different. Are you going to ask those who doesn't believe in God to leave the locker room during prayer? No, that would not be fair to them. Religion is a choice and I feel that if you want to practice it, do it in a place that will not have offense to those who don't believe (Homes, Churches, Religion Based Schools, etc).

[Sportsbuck]

freak93 said:

msuspartan2 said:

Why would they feel like an outsider if they don't stand for it?

When the whole team is kneeling together praying and you are off to the side, how won't you feel like an outsider? I think you may be missing the outsider point. You are not an outsider from religion or prayer, you feel like an outsider from the team.

It's your choice not to do it, and if you make that decision you have to live with it.

[Sportsbuck]

freak93 said:

Religion is a choice and I feel that if you want to practice it, do it in a place that will not have offense to those who don't believe (Homes, Churches, Religion Based Schools, etc).

There are MILLIONS of things that offend other people and cultures, so should we stop doing those in front of of people who are offended?

[Freak93]

sportsbuck2745 said:

freak93 said:

Religion is a choice and I feel that if you want to practice it, do it in a place that will not have offense to those who don't believe (Homes, Churches, Religion Based Schools, etc).

There are MILLIONS of things that offend other people and cultures, so should we stop doing those in front of of people who are offended?

Yes, as best as we can. If someone breathing offends a person, that is different. You cannot control breathing, it is vital to life. Something like religion however is not and should be kept in private.

[JacktheRipper]

I would actually argue that not allowing a team, not lead by a school offical, to pray in a locker room would go against our freedom of religion. That is not allowing someone to freely practice their faith. The school cannot lead it, because it can be seen as the government choosing one religion. Other than that, not allowing it I feel goes against our 1st Amendment just as much as the Principal leading the prayer.

[Sportsbuck]

freak93 said:

sportsbuck2745 said:

There are MILLIONS of things that offend other people and cultures, so should we stop doing those in front of of people who are offended?

Yes, as best as we can. If someone breathing offends a person, that is different. You cannot control breathing, it is vital to life. Something like religion however is not and should be kept in private.

Some people feel differently. Some value religion as the most important thing in the world, and that it is vital to their very being and existence. I mean, if we cut down on everything that is offensive to others as best we can we would be a robotic world deprived on emotion and deprived of feelings.

[Keeper]

I believe if the team wants to get together and do a player-led prayer before the game, they are fully withing their rights to do so, nothing can stop them from doing that. However, I would be much happier if it was an individualized or small group thing, because it gets rid of that uncomfortable feeling for the person who does not participate, and wouldn't paint them different than the rest of the group.

I find it similar to when I've been over to dinner at other people's houses, and they say grace. It's such an uncomfortable feeling for me. Either I pretend to pray, and feel awful for doing it, or I remove myself, and then I catch glances the rest of the meal. It's just a situation that if it can be avoided, I would prefer it be.

[Freak93]

The thing though is religion can be practiced in privacy and doesn't need to be displayed in public, thus making it non-vital. If you want to do it in the privacy of home, church, wherever, go for it. When it gets to be public though, some can be offended. When you do it in private, you are getting the same fulfillment. With this in mind, you are keeping your emotions, keeping your feelings.

If you love your girlfriend you want to show it. Let's say that you are out with your girlfriend and another friend who is single and in the slums. You are not going to be all over your girlfriend, expressing love as this great thing because that would be rude to your friend. (I had another example relating to sex, but felt that might not go over as well).

[JacktheRipper]

freak93 said:

If you love your girlfriend you want to show it. Let's say that you are out with your girlfriend and another friend who is single and in the slums. You are not going to be all over your girlfriend, expressing love as this great thing because that would be rude to your friend. (I had another example relating to sex, but felt that might not go over as well).

I had a friend, knowing I had just broken up with a girl a few weeks before, all over his girlfriend the entire time I was in town to visit. That had to be the biggest dick move anyone has pulled on me. I'm still exacting revenge to this day. You know, nothing major, just doing underhanded shit to him when I actually get over to Mobile. God that weekend sucked ass...

It is a valid point, but it wasn't against the law for him to do that. Same with prayer. Sure it's uncomfortable/dick sometimes, but you have to accept that it can happen. I went to a Catholic school most of my life and had to feign prayer and other things. It's sometimes just easier to go with the flow.

[Freak93]

bamarulz2020 said:

freak93 said:

If you love your girlfriend you want to show it. Let's say that you are out with your girlfriend and another friend who is single and in the slums. You are not going to be all over your girlfriend, expressing love as this great thing because that would be rude to your friend. (I had another example relating to sex, but felt that might not go over as well).

I had a friend, knowing I had just broken up with a girl a few weeks before, all over his girlfriend the entire time I was in town to visit. That had to be the biggest dick move anyone has pulled on me. I'm still exacting revenge to this day. You know, nothing major, just doing underhanded shit to him when I actually get over to Mobile. God that weekend sucked ass...

I tried to illustrate that point when my high school cracked down on acts of public affection. Nothing can be worse than that. It is like you get punched in the balls.

[JacktheRipper]

freak93 said:

bamarulz2020 said:

I had a friend, knowing I had just broken up with a girl a few weeks before, all over his girlfriend the entire time I was in town to visit. That had to be the biggest dick move anyone has pulled on me. I'm still exacting revenge to this day. You know, nothing major, just doing underhanded shit to him when I actually get over to Mobile. God that weekend sucked ass...

I tried to illustrate that point when my high school cracked down on acts of public affection. Nothing can be worse than that. It is like you get punched in the balls.

Oh it was. We went from being best friends to being strained. I'd still love to get his girlfriend drunk and give her the ole donkey punch. Then just be like..."Gotcha Bitch!" While being a complete ass when he had a hangover was fun (yelling at him, swerving around the road while he's about to puke, ect) it still doesn't serve the purpose of true revenge. Just the fact someone who you grew up with and thought you were about as close as brothers would pull that shit...Still haven't forgiven him I don't think.

I'm not one to hold a grudge, but by Mardi Gras day I was actually depressed and I've never really been depressed.

Well enough of this discussion, back to praying at school.

[Freak93]

bamarulz2020 said:

freak93 said:

I tried to illustrate that point when my high school cracked down on acts of public affection. Nothing can be worse than that. It is like you get punched in the balls.

the ole donkey punch

Post of the day.

[Claytons Crew]

Does everyone here believe in God?

[detroitbasketball]

freak93 said:

The thing though is religion can be practiced in privacy and doesn't need to be displayed in public, thus making it non-vital. If you want to do it in the privacy of home, church, wherever, go for it. When it gets to be public though, some can be offended. When you do it in private, you are getting the same fulfillment. With this in mind, you are keeping your emotions, keeping your feelings.

If you love your girlfriend you want to show it. Let's say that you are out with your girlfriend and another friend who is single and in the slums. You are not going to be all over your girlfriend, expressing love as this great thing because that would be rude to your friend. (I had another example relating to sex, but felt that might not go over as well).

If all we do is going around only attempting to live our lives so as not to offend anybody, nothing is ever going to get done. You can't please all the people all the time. If you want to make sure that you're not offending anyone, you're going to have to stop singing "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch, and remove any and all mentions of God anywhere, and stop putting up Christmas decorations, etc etc etc. It cannot be done. Someone in the world would probably be offended by the fact that I'm listening to "Sexy Sadie" by the Beatles right now, but nobody's going to say I can't do that, can I?

[jct32]

Why do people get offended so easily?

But when I played football about 20 minutes before we went out to warm up, the people who wanted to pray would go to the film room and we would have a local minister there to talk to us for a little while. Now not everyone went to these it was split about 50-50. Some would stay in the locker room and prepare for themselves and the rest would go in the film room. Would you consider that making someone feel like an outsider? If they went somewhere else to pray instead of doing it in the locker room.

[Keeper]

claytonscrew said:

Does everyone here believe in God?

No.

jct32 said:

Why do people get offended so easily?

But when I played football about 20 minutes before we went out to warm up, the people who wanted to pray would go to the film room and we would have a local minister there to talk to us for a little while. Now not everyone went to these it was split about 50-50. Some would stay in the locker room and prepare for themselves and the rest would go in the film room. Would you consider that making someone feel like an outsider? If they went somewhere else to pray instead of doing it in the locker room.

I have no problem with this.